I’ll jot thoughts here, with timestamps (EDT) as the debate unfolds.
- [9:04] where do the candidates stand on the current economic recovery plan
Obama:
– oversight of the financial rescue spending
– taxpayers must get money from bailout back when market improves
– no CEO golden parachutes
– solve the root problem: loans and foreclosures
McCain:
– loans to failing businesses
– oversight
– create jobs by eliminating dependence on foreign oil - Are you in favor of this plan?
Obama:
– [9:09] no clear answer on this – he wanted to see the final plan
McCain
– yes, he supports it - [9:11] Do we need more responsibility on Wall St. (in response to McCain arguing this) ?
Obama:
– yes, but we have to hold people accountable before things get bad - [9:13] There seems to be a lot of agreement on this topic. Both candidates agree on the basic “wills” – oversight, accountability, job creation.
- [9:14] New question: are there fundamental differences between your two approaches to lead this country out of financial crisis?
McCain:
– get spending under control – Republicans have grown gov’t more than during the “Great Society” period.
– He cited $3M to study Bear DNA in Montana as an example of waste, though he didn’t have a clue why this money was needed in the first place.
– McCain points to $900M in Obama-requested earmarks, and says this is a fundamental difference between them
Obama:
– suspended earmark requests of IL until the earmark system was reformed
– earmarks are $18B in last year’s budgets, compared to McCain’s $300B in tax cuts. What else is he cutting? Obama claims these are primarily for the wealthy.
– proposing tax cut for 95% of working families
McCain:
– Obama only suspended earmarks when he was running for president
– Earmarks might “only” be $18B, but it’s tripled in the last decade and it corrupts people
– McCain points to his fight against earmarks – he’s not “Miss Congeniality” in the U.S. spending
– I want to cut spending and keep taxes low – the worst thing to do in these times is raised taxes
Obama:
– taxes increased for the companies, closes tax loopholes. All expenditures will be paid for with these approaches.
– will go line-by-line in budget to remove earmarks, but removing them won’t solve the problems of the middle class
– McCain’s tax policies neglect the struggling
McCain: [9:20]
– business tax: U.S. businesses pay 2nd highest taxes in the world. It’s attractive to relocate to another country and create jobs. I want to cut that tax and keep businesses here.
– earmarks are more than $18B
– tax credits for health care and for dependent children.
Obama:
– 95% of American people will get a tax cut
– if you make <$250k per year, no tax increases
– business taxes are high. But, the loopholes in the tax code allow businesses to escape paying the taxes. McCain doesn’t want to close the loopholes, only cut taxes.
– regarding $5000 health credit, McCain intends to tax health benefits. So you get a credit, but employer has to pay taxes on the healthcare, so you might lose your employer healthcare. This forces you to shop for healthcare.
McCain:
– I have a record of fighting pork
– Obama has shifted his position and taxed poor families
Obama:
– Not true.
– Accused McCain of wanting to give tax breaks to oil companies
– Obama opposed the tax breaks, and tried to strip them. But McCain opposes the energy bill because of this. - [9:26] As president, as a result of the financial rescue plan, what are you going to give up in your priorities in order to pay for it?
Obama:
– a range of things will have to be delayed without knowing the tax revenues
– some things have to be done: energy independence (10 years to free from foreign oil and invest in alternatives, fuel efficient cars), fix the healthcare system, make sure we are competing – invest in science and technology.
– children must keep pace in science and math, and make college affordable.
– rebuild our infrastructure, build up broadband and electrical grid.
– Obama doesn’t want to short-change these things – will eliminate programs that don’t work
McCain:
– cut spending. Obama has the most liberal voting record, making it hard for him to reach across the aisle
– eliminate ethanol subsidies
– do away with cost-plus contracts in our defense budget, the largest part of the budget (kill projects with over-budget spending). Need fixed-cost contracts.
Obama:
– things will have to be delayed, but he hasn’t said what.
– the big goals have to stay, although parts of them might have to be delayed. Still not specific.
– the liberal charge: that’s because I’ve mostly opposed Bush’s policies
– working with a conservative republican to make “Google for Government”, so that the budget can easily be scrutinized - [9:32] Lehrer kept digging: how specifically will this bailout affect
McCain:
– spending freeze on veterans benefits that are not critical
Obama:
– a freeze is a hammer when a scalpel is needed
– we’re spending $10B/month in Iraq, when they have a $79B surplus – bring war to a close
McCain:
– suspend aid to countries that oppose us
– we need nuclear power, which Obama opposes. This is important for jobs, energy, and climate. - Lehrer tried again: are you willing to acknowledge that this crisis affects the way you rule the country beyond the things you’ve already said
Obama:
– no doubt this will affect our budgets. Even if the markets recover and we get the money back, in the short term I will have to make tough decisions
– the decisions are driven by values: if we are spending $300B on tax cuts for people who do not need them, and not handling healthcare, this sounds like a bad decision
McCain:
– we cannot hand healthcare over to gov’t. Obama would do that.
– cut spending. Obama wants new spending, suggests he cancel some of those.
– a healthy economy with low taxes is probably the best recipe for recovering the economy, coupled with spending restraint.
Obama:
– It’s been your president, whom you’ve sided with 90% of the time, and he presided over this “orgy of spending”, and you approved his budgets. To say you’ll lead on controlling spending and giving tax cuts, when it hasn’t happened in the last 8 years, how do we know it will happen now.
McCain:
– I’ve opposed the pres. on spending, climate change, torture, etc. A long record makes my intentions clear. - [9:39] What are the lessons of Iraq?
McCain:
– you cannot have a failed strategy that causes you to nearly lose a conflict
– initial success led to bad mishandling of war
– McCain called for more troops and change in strategy
– New strategy has succeeded and we are winning
– Iraq will be a stable ally and fledgling democracy. Defeat would have led to an empowered Iran, and a need for U.S. to return to region. The new strategy avoided this.
Obama:
– Should we have gone in the first place? Obama opposed the war when it was popular to support it, citing costs, strategy, intelligence, and relations with allies.
– We didn’t finish the job in Afganistan, and Iraq was a distraction
– Spent over $600B in Iraw, 30000 wounded, thousands killed. We took our eye off the ball, and Al Quaeda is stronger now.
– Iraq has a surplus. Why is that money not being used?
– The lesson: we should never hesitate to use military force, but we have to do so wisely. Iraq was not a wise use of the military.
McCain:
– the next president doesn’t get to decide whether we go to war in Iraq, but whether we leave and when we leave
– Obama opposed the surge strategy, even though it worked. He would still oppose it now, even though it succeeded.
– Obama runs a subcommittee that oversees Afganistan, and he’s never had a meeting
Obama:
– these issues don’t go through my subcommittee – this is “inside baseball”
– the surge was designed to contain the damage of previous mismanagement. McCain likes to pretend the war started in 2007. McCain said the war would be quick and easy, we would be greeted as liberators, that sectarian violence would not happen, etc.
– if the question is: who is best equipped to make good decisions about the military, then you can check our judgement
McCain:
– Obama doesn’t understand the difference between a tactic and strategy
– The current strategy is working, and Obama won’t accept this. The Clear-and-Hold strategy is working.
– this same strategy will be used in Afganistan.
– Obama cut funding for troops
Obama:
– [9:47] we’ve each opposed troop funding – me when it didn’t have a timetable and McCain when it did.
– end the Iraq war in phases, responsibly. Bolster forces in Afganistan.
McCain:
– Obama’s plan is dangerous.
– Withdrawal will make things more complicated in the region - In Afganistan, should we have more troops, how many, and when?
Obama:
– yes, more troops. 2-3 additional brigades to Afganistan. We have 4x the troops in Iraq than Afganistan. That is a strategic mistake. Al Quaeda is the greatest threat, and the central front in that war is Afganistan (and Pakistan).
– press the Afgan govt to make sure they are working for their people
– deal with the poppy trade
– deal with Pakistan. AQ and Taliban have safe-havens. We’ve given them $10B, but they have not eliminated the safe-havens
McCain:
– will not repeat the mistake of abandoning Afganistan after Soviets were removed.
– I am not prepared to cut off aid to Pakistan, or threaten them. We need the support of Pakistan, not launching military strikes into Pakistan. Don’t say things like that out loud.
– Pakistan/Afgan border area not under control of Pak. govt. A new strategy is needed: surge, clear-and-hold. Same as succeeded in Iraq. Need cooperation of people in those areas.
– With Petraeus newly seated in command, this strategy can proceed.
– I know how to work with Pakistan
Obama:
– I did not say I would attack Pakistan. I said that if the U.S. has AQ in sights, and Pakistan is unable or unwilling to act, we should take out AQ. That’s the right policy and strategy.
– You’ve threatened North Korea publicly and threatened to “bomb Iran” – how are you credible on this issue?
– We’ve coddled Musharraf, alienated population because we were against democracy, we supported “our dictator”, and this prevented AQ from being opposed.
McCain:
– Obama doesn’t understand that there was a failed state in Pakistan when Musharraf took power.
– My record: when I was a new congressman in ’83, Reagan wanted to send marines into Lebanon. I opposed that because I felt a few hundred marines could not make a difference. I was right. I supported bombing in the first gulf war. I supported going into Bosnia to stop genocide. I supported our action in Kosovo and Somalia.
– I have a record of good judgment about sending troops into harm’s way.
– It’s hard to recover when an army is defeated
Obama:
– For the next president, are we making good judgments about using our military wisely?
– Nobody is talking about defeat in Iraq, but the choices in Iraq are costing us in Afganistan
– McCain said we can “muddle through” Afganistan. We can’t muddle through the fight in AQ.
McCain:
– accused Obama of not caring enough to travel to Afganistan, even though he’s subcommittee chair.
– defeat in Iraq, if we adopt a date for withdrawal, will have calamitous effects on Afganistan. - What is the threat from Iran to the U.S.?
McCain:
– if Iran acquires nuclear weapons, it is an existential threat to Israel and a sign for other countries in the region to acquire nuclear weapons.
– form a league of democracies outside the U.N. (Russia has opposed progress on this in the security council) to impose meaningful and painful sanctions on Iran. Their lousy govt has led to lousy economy, which means that are easily affected by sanctions.
– have no doubt they continue to pursue nuclear weapons
– Iran is sending the most lethal IEDs into Iraq, training insurgents. Obama opposed declaring the Iran paramilitary groups as supporters of terrorism.
Obama:
– I believe the republican guard is a terrorist group. The measure McCain referred to would have broadened the mandate from Iraq into Iran. I opposed that.
– the nuclear threat has gotten worse as they have multiplied their centifuges. The policies of the last 8 years have made things worse. Need to avoid arms race in middle east.
– need tougher sanctions, but we need to include Russia and China due to their extensive trade. They are no democracies, not included in McCain’s “league”.
– we must talk to Iran. Not talking is not working. Isolating them has not worked - What about talking to Iran?
McCain:
– Obama would talk without precondition. Iran talks about wiping Israel off the map. How can we legitimize this platform and give them more global creedence? It sends a sign to others that bad behavior leads to global recognition.
– I’ll sit down with anybody, as long as there are pre-conditions.
Obama:
– The most powerful person in Iran is not necessarily the president. I reserve the right to meet with anybody, as I choose, to keep America safe.
– One of McCain’s own advisors said we should meet with Iran without pre-conditions. What does that mean? Until we agree with what we have required for a meeting, we won’t meet. Maybe it won’t work with Iran, a rogue regime. However, although I was called “naive” for talking about meeting with Iran, but even Bush has sent representatives to move along nuclear talks.
– when we cutoff talks with North Korea, they succeeded in their nuclear aspirations. When we re-engaged, then we at least made some progress which is currently being eroded.
– McCain’s own advisors think talking is important, even without pre-conditions. McCain even said he wouldn’t meet with the leader of Spain.
McCain:
– Kissinger (my advisor) did not say he would approve face-to-face meetings between U.S. and Iranian presidents, by with low-level representatives.
– you can’t legitimize the opinions Iran has about Israel by meeting with their leader
– NK has broken every agreement it entered into
Obama:
– Kissenger did say meet without pre-conditions, but we cannot expect all conditions to be met before talking.
– the fact that we won’t meet with the Iranian president just because he says bad things about people is pointless. - How do you see the relationship with Russia?
Obama:
– given what’s happened recently, a resurgent aggressive Russia is a threat to regional peace and stabilty. Their actions in Georgia were unwarranted. They need to respect the 6-point cease-fire, complete the withdrawal, and act like a 21st century superpower. We need to affirm relationships with Russia’s neighbors.
– Loose nuclear weapons from Russia are a serious threat. I’ve worked with Dick Luger on this issue in the Senate. You deal with Russia based on the national security interests of the U.S., and their current behavior demands a sharp response.
McCain:
– Called Obama “naive”
– Russia is fueled by petrodollars and run by ex-KGB. Their aggression in Georgia not acceptable.
– The conflict in Georgia had to do with Russia’s energy interests.
– The U.S. will support the inclusion of Georgia and Ukraine into NATO
– Russians are in violation of their cease fire agreement
– Watch Ukraine, and make them understand we are their allies
Obama:
– We agree on these issues. We have both strongly, vociferously opposed this action by Russia.
– We need $1B to help Georgia rebuild. Russia wanted to weaken the economy to cause the govt to collapse, yielding a Russia-friendly govt.
– I warned the administration in April that Russian peacekeepers were in Georgian territory, before the situation boiled over. No action was taken to fix this, and had action been taken this might have avoided.
– as a huge consumer of oil, we have to have an energy strategy to deal with Russia and rogue states. We consume 25% of the world oil supply, but we only have 3% of the supply here at home. Solar, wind, clean coal, etc.
– McCain voted 23 times against alternative energy in his 26 years.
– National security and energy are important
McCain:
– Obama is against reprocessing and storing nuclear fuel, even though he’s for nuclear energy.
– drill offshore and exploit reserves for temporary relief.
Obama:
– I have never said I oppose nuclear waste, but we have to store it safely. - What is the likelihood that there will be another 9/11 type attack?
McCain:
– less than it was the day after 9/11. We are safer but a long way from safe.
– I have a long record of reform in the Senate, but after 9/11 Lieberman and I tried to create a commission to find out what happened.
– Of the 40 recommendations from the commission, most are law. It was a bi-partisan commission, and I am proud of that work.
– We need better human intelligence, better trained interrogators to avoid torture, better technology, and closer ties with allies.
– America is safer today than after 9/11
– The people in the new homeland security agencies are doing a great job, but more work is needed along the borders
Obama:
– safe in some ways: airport security, securing specific potential targets
– need more hardening of chemical sites, transit, and ports
– our biggest threat is not a nuclear missile, but a suitcase nuke. Terrorist nuclear weapons are the biggest threat.
– we spend billions on missile defense, which is important, but we only spend a few hundred million on nuclear proliferation – that’s a mistake
– we cannot focus just on Iraq. We need to go to the root: Afganistan and Pakistan. We need to work with allied
– how we are perceived in this war is critical to our success. We must restore our standing in the world.
McCain:
– Obama doesn’t quite get that if we fail in Iraq, it encourages AQ. Obama’s plan is certain defeat.
Obama:
– I see these connections. Over the last 8 years, this administration and McCain have been solely focused on Iraq. Meanwhile, Bin Laden is free and AQ is growing.
– we have weakened our capacity to project power around the world because of our myopia.
– our economy is weakened by the effort in Iraq. This hurts healthcare, science and technology. No country has had an economy decline and still have military superiority.
McCain:
– I’ve been involved in nearly every national security we’ve faced in 25 years. I don’t believe Obama has the knowledge or experience. His stubbornness in not acknowledging the surge success is reminiscent of the Bush administration.
– I’ll take care of the veterans
Obama:
– My father’s desire to come to America for an education because it was the place to go to succeed. Our standing now is now the same as it was then.
– the next president, to keep America safe, must send a message to the world: we will invest in domestic power to restore ourselves.
McCain:
– The treatment of veterans after Vietnam greatly saddened me. As president, I will heal the wounds of war and deal with our adversaries.
